Police Fire Wars in Louisiana AGAIN
There’s been another incident involving a police officer arresting a firefighter over a line of duty action, this time in Winnfield, Louisiana because the officer did not like where a fire truck was parked at an incident scene.
Firefighter Jonathan Johnson was arrested Saturday at his fire station following a response to a minor motor vehicle accident. According to reports, a Winn Parish Sheriff’s Department deputy ordered Johnson to move his fire vehicle that was in a blocking position to protect personnel at the scene. Johnson refused citing safety concerns.
Dave Statter has more on this and here is a video.
My question in this case is whether the officer may have been trying to be cute by avoiding an arrest at an incident scene to avoid an obstructing a fireman charge? Recall the case from March 24, 2014 when a New Roads, Louisiana police officer arrested, handcuffed and detained a volunteer firefighter at an emergency medical incident over where the firefighter parked his truck.
Immediately thereafter, the Louisiana State Fire Marshal’s Office launched a criminal investigation into the police officer for interfering with a firefighter in the performance of his duties. Here is the Louisiana law on obstructing a fireman, which is similar to laws on the books in most states:
Louisiana Revised Statutes 14:327
§327. Obstructing a fireman
A.(1) It shall be unlawful for any person intentionally to obstruct any fireman while in the performance of his official duties. Obstructing a fireman is hereby defined as intentionally hindering, delaying, hampering, interfering with, or impeding the progress of any regularly employed member of a fire department of any municipality, parish, or fire protection district of the state of Louisiana, or any volunteer fireman of the state of Louisiana while in the performance of his official duties; or cursing, reviling, or using any opprobrious language directed at any such fireman while in the performance of his official duties.
Under Louisiana law, the State Fire Marshal’s Office is charged with investigating and enforcing 14:327. I have to wonder whether the Winn Parish Sheriff’s Department deputy waited until after the incident to satisfy his urge to retaliate against Johnson – in order avoid the scrutiny of a state investigation for “obstructing a fireman” in the “performance of his official duties”.
No word yet as to whether the Louisiana State Fire Marshal’s office will investigate despite the fact that the arrest did not occur at an incident scene. While the statutes in some states limit charges of obstructing or interfering with a firefighter to actions that occur at incident scenes, Louisiana’s 14:327 does not appear to. So yanking the firefighter from his truck at the fire station and arresting him (thus taking him away from his duties) could be a violation of 14:327!!! And then there is the question of whether the officer may have used “opprobrious language” in speaking to Johnson at the scene…
In the memorable words of Rodney King “why can’t we all just get along.”
Of course, there is another aspect… the firefighter is black, the officer is white…
Of course, there is another aspect: black firefighter, white “deppity.” Gotta LOVE their “Group W” bench, too, where every arrestee gets to sit so everyone in town can see he’s been busted.
Chief, I think you’re absolutely correct in the “deppity” following the engine back to the barn to avoid interference charges.
Andrew… let’s hope you are wrong…
A good point to address in this situation is the education of vehicle placement. Are the law enforcement agencies familiar with standards taught to their respective fire departments. I would urge all Fire Chiefs to reach out to their respective LEO counterparts and discuss the issue. Once again, this is an issue that can usually be minimized through understanding the others point of view and objectives. This understanding must be instilled in each discipline before a response.
I am happy to say that vehicle placement is very seldom an issue with our departments, In most conflicts it is because the fire department is not taking enough space. I teach our officers that big red things don’t move when struck, but cruisers do.
Why make a racial issue out of it? That is what is wrong with some people. As soon as two races are involved, it’s “he / she did it because they were the wrong color.” People, grow up. Stop acting like we are still in the stone age.
Just me
The truth is we are not out of the racial stone age – I wish we were. If you have been watching the headlines out of Ferguson, Missouri you’ll notice that race is still a major challenge for us as a society. Discrimination continues to occur, often on a sub-conscious level as with racial profiling (read Malcolm Gladwell’s book Blink)… But even when it does not occur in a given case some folks are primed to find it because it reaffirms their own prejudices.
I agree with you – we need to get past the racial issues. I just don’t think we are anywhere near there yet.
And won’t be there until the Government quits promoting racism. Any gov document or application has a race question. Supposedly for statistics. Will dropping the race question end racism? No, but it would be a start. Or answer them like I do, and check “other” and write AMERICAN.
Let me direct your attention to http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78428
That’s your scene Mr. Firefighter how cute. You type the crash report, issue the appropriate citations, call for wreckers, etc. then. While I understand both sides of the argument we must get along and know each others roles. I’ve been on two many scenes where the fire department blocks the road needlessly. While sometimes it is warranted many times it is not. Diverting traffic causes secondary crashes thus tying all of us up longer than needed.
Just for the record on this particular incident, FF is black and Sheriff Deputy is white BUT THIS WAS NOT racially motivated. FF involved is and has been exemplary who was doing exactly as his Capt instructed as per dept SOPs on creating safety corridor for pt care. This was simply an example of poor fire/police relations AND a cop in God mode that had his ego bruised unaware of Emergency Responder laws and statutes.
Just plain sad!
Steve Bertani
Fire Chief
The bottom line is the bottom line: we have to get along. You don’t see police officers arresting other police officers because they don’t like where the other officers parks their cruisers. They work it out – even when different agencies are involved. Egos get put aside.
The law you point out says everyone has to obey the lawful commands of a police officer. All 50 states have a similar law. Again, do you see police officers arresting other police officers under RS 14:329? Even when different agencies are involved? Could it be they all somehow park their cruisers in the perfect location so not one officer ever questions another? Not one refuses to do what another officer requests?
I say if you are going to charge ANYONE – charge both the firefighter and the officer and let a judge sort it out. But to ignore the clear violation of law by the police officer and only consider a violation of 14:329 – well, that only makes sense to cops.
You said you have been on too many scenes where fire apparatus needless block the roads. So have I. That is a training issue, a communications issue, a leadership issue, and ICS issue – IT IS NOT A CRIMINAL OFFENSE. It should be addressed through post-incident critiques, not a criminal trial.
I have also been on scenes where everything is fine – no issues what so ever – until suddenly a drunk or inattentive driver comes plowing into the scene – and if our trucks were not positioned to protect us, firefighters would have been killed. One night I was standing 20 feet from a car that plowed through a police car, SUV and into the back of a fire truck while we were trying to extricate people from a prior crash. No police or firefighters were injured (they could have been) but the car’s driver died in front of us, his last words “I guess I’m in trouble”. There’s too many rookie cops that have not experienced that yet – and too many senior fire officers who have. Arresting firefighters under laws like 14:329 is not the answer.
And then we get to the issue of who has the ultimate say on whether this particular crash warrants which particular units in what particular locations blocking which particular lanes. I totally agree that unnecessary backups cause crashes. Absolutely 100% agree. Traffic should not be tied up unnecessarily. Huge problem and no one understands it better than law enforcement. That is not disputed. The dispute is over – what is “necessary” or “unnecessary”, who gets to decide, and what are the consequences if the parties cannot agree. A criminal record… even an arrest – should not be part of the discussion.
What everyone is forgetting is that this call falls under the IC protocols because of the multiple agencies on the call. When this happens the scene belongs to fire. Law Enforcement is now there in a support role.
All these guidelines are set up by FEMA and or Homeland Security and the TIMS Class and every state that has a federal road has agreed to put these into law. By these guidelines Traffic control also falls on Fire and by federal guideline a blocker is required to protect FIRE, EMS, and LEO. cause well and ambulance and a squad car will move, were that big red truck want moving very much! That is why Federal guideline were put into place to protect all parties.
So RS 33:1971 — Fire ground authority, here you go!
C. Defiance or violation of this authority, command, and control shall constitute fire fighting interference and shall be punishable in conformance with R.S. 14:206.
Bottom line the arrest was made because of a order he thought he could give at a fire scene, and the officer didn’t have authority over the scene
and the result will end up like the CHP case and that officer will lose alot of his personal money for his mistake.
Chris
I’m not sure we are forgetting anything… particularly ICS. We have group of responders who believe that if things are not done they way they want them done, they will arrest people until they get compliance. Its not an ICS problem per se (although it would be helpful as a defense to the criminal charges) because ICS ASSUMES everyone is acting as an adult in trying to work through the on-scene issues.
I have spoken to folks at DHS and USFA about clarifying NIMS with language on how to resolve disputes between unified commanders with conflicting objectives so that one does not feel entitled to arrest another – and the response was that the Police-Fire Wars problem occurs so infrequently that it doesn’t warrant opening up that “can of worms”.
I disagree and I assume you do as well.
If you recall your ICS materials it pretty clearly states that no agencies objectives shall be ignored – and that goes both ways – police cannot ignore firefighter safety issues and firefighters cannot ignore police concerns about unnecessary traffic delays. The problem is how do you resolve an escalating dispute in real time.
I am headed to Emmitsburg today… perhaps we can get the ICS conversation restarted. In the mean time I think the solution is to charge the arresting police officer with interfering with a firefighter – so he has something to consider before he places a firefighter in handcuffs.
I suppose my dept is the exception. We work extremely well with the patrol officers in my district. Many times they are surprised we didn’t close the road and had traffic moving while maintaining a safe work area. Sometimes they are a little antsy to open the road, but an explanation of what we need to do, and we will get the traffic flowing as soon as that task is done, is enough. Simple communication. It really expedites the investigation process for them to not have to worry about traffic control, and their documentation at the same time.They have our back, and we have theirs.
There’s always a lot of discussion as to who is “really” the IC at a crash scene, with the cops saying they are, and the firefighters saying we are, and medics are saying they are… and yet, to the best of my knowledge, it’s never been statutorily decided. I had been told once that CA state law had the PD legally in charge, but I checked with a retired San Diego cop and he said that was wrong.
Since this attempt at letting logic rule things seems to be getting nowhere, we should get the legislatures of the several states to decide, and put in the statute books who is in charge under what conditions.
And fire chiefs and fire marshals (if they have arrest powers in their respective jurisdictions) should e empowered to place police officers under arrest for interference.
For a good look at what I mean, take a look at the video, “The Hats of Incident Command” (http://www.virginiadot.org/info/incidentmanagement.asp). I use it in every ICS course I teach, whether 100 or 400, and especially in G-402… it really explains it in language non-emergency services personnel (like politicians) understand.
There’s your award-winning idea, Curt.
FIRE BRAIN BLOG. Educate people on how their brains work.
I know this fire department and sheriffs office. I can tell you that the FD trains weekly both the full time fire fighters and the volunteers. Maybe the deputies should come join in the training. then instead of having issues like this – it could be sorted out in training and addressed how things should be done….just sayin’.
I like the Arlo Guthrie reference. He’s an enlightened man, Curt. He’s probably on to something.
Interestingly enough, in my neck of the woods, the police cruisers are now also parking in blocking positions like the fire trucks. Instead of coming up directly behind the stop, I am seeing more and more angling out into the lane, wheels turned to roll the car away from the officer and the pulled over person if the cruiser were to be rear ended by traffic.
Even though he didnt arrest him on the scene of the call, he still very much interfered with the performance of his duties. As A shift assigned firefighter, his duties begin at the start of his shift and continue until he is releaved the following morning at the end of his shift, Waiting at the station with the rest of his crew for the next call to drop is an official duty,
Does anyone know what the result of this case was? I can’t find any updates on the web.