Criminal LawPoliticsYou Can't Make This Stuff Up
Use of Prisoners as Firefighters
A friend of mine sent me this story about the use of prisoners as firefighters in Georgia. Apparently it is old news to many, but it is such a radical idea to me that I felt it was worth airing this issue here.
What do you think, good idea, bad idea?
My concern is over the opportunity that firefighters have to enter into buildings in the absence of the owner, having access to keys, security code information, etc. Is the cost of a firefighter’s salary that outrageous that responsible officials would subject citizens to such a threat? Or is it the Tea Party mindset gone off the deep end?
I’m not seeing the savings here. The county will have to train and equip these people. I don’t know if this department provides EMS or not, or what the Georgia lisensure requirements are, but in RI you can not obtain an EMT liscense with a criminal record. I’m not so sure that firefighters are well suited to supervise inmates, non-violent or not. That is the job of corrections officers. I also believe that the county will place itself in a difficult position leagally in the event that an inmate is injured or re-offends while “on duty” with the FD.
Here’s a couple of guys who’re already trained, send them over to Georgia. This comment is as stupid as the reference to the Tea Party was.
Two volunteer firefighters from the Ridgeville Volunteer Fire Department, in Dorchester County, South Carolina, have been arrested in Orangeburg County in connection with the theft of nearly $40,000 worth of copper wire.
Mike – as I understand it these guys are on duty 24/7 – so each one takes the place of 3 or 4 firefighters doing shift work.
The liability risk is huge… Can you imagine an attorney cross examining the fire chief in a suit where the prisoner-firefighter committed a serious offense leading the victim to sue the department? How would the department defend itself????
Gee Mike – I rather liked the Tea Party comment.
Gee, how about replacing some of the county commissioners with prisoners? As politicians, they’re practically criminals already so there would be that much of a difference.
I think that the use of inmate fire fighters has to be done extremely carefully, and this isn’t the way. Want to run a prison fire department that primarily serves the prison, but can also be used to supplement local resources if needed (after all, it was a bunch of San Quentin inmate fire fighters who rescued 2 boaters after their boat sank), or use them for wild land fire fighting (which California has done with great success).
The two biggest problems I have with this story is that it’s displacing paid fire fighters (or at least making it easier to do so), and it’s not all in house. If the corrections department wanted to run a fire station in an undeserved area where the officers were corrections officials and the fire fighters were low risk, heavily vetted inmates, then I’d have much less of a problem with it.
Joe
You are right as usual. There probably are some areas where the concept – if well managed – may have merit. The wildland situation makes alot of sense.
Supplimenting or replacing structural firefighters serving residential or commercial neighborhoods would not be wise choices.
Being the devil’s advocate that I try to be from time to time I can see this as a decent opportunity to rehabilitate non-violent criminals without a history of theft. If the whole purpose of jail is to provide rehabilitation to misled individuals this may provide a positive opportunity to give inmates a “skill”.
Having said that it would have to be handled very carefully and selection would have to be very strict. Having spent a great portion of my career as a volunteer or in support of volunteer agencies I can see the use of appropriate inmates to help with tasks on scene that need to be completed but are not our favorites. For me this would include overhaul, clean up, and loading hose.
Once again it would have to be very selective and well supervised but I could be in support of a program used to help complete the rehab of the right person.
Thanks Shane
I suppose its not a totally ridiculous idea – but as you say – it would have to be handled very carefully.
My concern is about sexual offenders, thieves, addicts, and folks with anger management issues being placed into high stress, potentially complex, and often dangerous situations where people/victims are most vulnerable. Lets face it – at virtually every run we go on we are entrusted to safe guard people’s property… an MVA where the patient is injured – and her pocket book on the back seat; going through someone’s apartment looking for a smoke detector in alarm; a house fire after everyone has been evacuated… the list of opportunities to steal, access drugs, and be alone with a victim is endless…
Also – what do you do if an inmate refuses to climb a ladder, enter a burning building, or follow an order? What if they abandon their crewmates? Just how far can they be pushed?
Lastly – there is a great deal of training that goes into preparing someone to be a firefighter. Then comes experience that needs to be measured in years, not weeks or months. The offenders who would most likely be a good fit to serve as firefighters are also those who are least likely to be in prison for long enough to go through a serious training program and serve long enough to become proficient, where as the ones who will be in prison for an extended period are more likely to be those who would not make good candidates for the program.
I’m going to combine two replies here.
“Supplimenting or replacing structural firefighters serving residential or commercial neighborhoods would not be wise choices.”
I can see a use for structural inmate fire fighting in places that cannot support a fire department based on population or run volume. Would you rather have a fire engine with a corrections officer/fire officer and 3 inmates who are available to respond immediately and are available to train continuously, or a volunteer department where the response time is delayed due to a “respond to station” interval and run by people where training is competing with a full time job, family, friends, etc?
Neither of those are ideal choices for hopefully obvious reasons, but if someplace isn’t running a full time, appropriately staffed department, then we’re already out of the ideal.
“My concern is about sexual offenders, thieves, addicts, and folks with anger management issues”
I imagine that the first two and the last will largely be categorically denied. Addicts I can see on a case by case basis. How many health care providers (especially physicians) become addicted, go through a treatment program, and eventually regain full practice rights? Heck, if addiction alone was a disqualifying factor, how many emergency services workers (regardless of agency type) would be terminated due to alcoholism?
I agree that this shouldn’t be a situation where everyone who applied gets accepted, but given the number of current inmates looking at parole (including unsupervised parole) due to overcrowding and lack of funding, how many would be released to the public with no supervision to begin with?
“Also – what do you do if an inmate refuses to climb a ladder, enter a burning building, or follow an order? What if they abandon their crewmates? Just how far can they be pushed?”
What happens if a non-inmate fire fighter refuses to climb a ladder, enter a building, or follow an order? I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to assume that the same drive that pushes non-inmate fire fighters is not present for the inmates who get selected. Additionally, going back to prison could easily be viewed as a fate worse than termination of employment.
Additionally, if the inmate is innately confrontational or unlikely to follow orders, I doubt that they would be in minimum security prison anyways. They shouldn’t be drawing volunteers out of the secured housing unit.
“Lastly – there is a great deal of training that goes into preparing someone to be a firefighter. Then comes experience that needs to be measured in years, not weeks or months. ”
True, but how many other firefighters could the concern about experience be leveled at? Especially when viewed as actual time training, not just a simple date of joining a department?
Where to begin… where to begin
“Would you rather have a fire engine with a corrections officer/fire officer and 3 inmates who are available to respond immediately and are available to train continuously, or a volunteer department where the response time is delayed due to a “respond to station” interval and run by people where training is competing with a full time job, family, friends, etc? ”
If the only incidents that fire departments responded to were serious fires where lives and property were endangered, then I think your argument might make sense. The problem is for 95%+ of our runs we are in and out of peoples homes investigating alarms, smells, odors, etc. – so for that 95% I want honest, solid citizens responding, even if their response is delayed – not convicted inmates. For the other 1-5% – where immediate action by “someone” could prevent damage or save lives – I agree with you.
As for non-inmate (regular) firefighters who refuse to enter buildings, climb latters, follow orders, they would be subject to normal fire department disciplinary policies and if appropriate dismissed. While the member is being disciplined or if need be dismissed other firefighters would have to fill the gap (typically via overtime at least until a new firefighter can be hired and trained).
With inmates – ideally it would be the same in principle – but where will the supply of fully trained inmates come from to fill the spot? Remember, inmates are on 24-7 so its not like we can hold an inmate from another shift over… what about the interim. I also see a temptation for administrators to be willing to get by with a “body” so they do not have to pay 3-4 career firefighters to replace the 1 inmate. Also – who will be evaluating how serious the “violation” is? A parol board – or penal based evaluation panel might conclude the inmate was justified in not climbing the ladder, following an order, etc. The prison system may be reluctant to surrender their own right to evaluate inmate behavior to firefighters who may be better able to assess the misconduct. Regular (non-inmate) firefighters who refuse to climb a ladder, follow orders, etc. would be evaluated by firefighters/fire officers.
Inmates being highly motivated to be a firefighter? I can see that some inmates may be – but I think many more will see it as a convenient alternative to sitting in a jail cell. While it is motivation it may not be enough motivation to get them to run into burning buildings,etc. when the chips are down. At least firefighters (career or volunteers) are there by choice, not as a calculated least painful way to serve time.
All rhetoric aside – the inmates who would probably make the best candidates to be a firefighter will be the ones serving 1-2 year sentences. That means by the time they are trained the most experience they will ever have is somewhere south of 2 years. The more hardcore offenders who are in for longer terms – who theoretically could serve for 5, 10 even 15 years – are probably the type we do not want. It is a paradox.
This is kinda like a slap in the face to any candidate that may have been rejected during the background phase of the hiring process. In the future, could Camden reject a potential employee from a job based on minor criminal history? Would this be a “slippery slope” for other job prerequisites?
Being a firefighter in California, I have seen how well inmate crews can work out on the fireline and in the off season. That being said, the supervision required over the crews is, well, required: Fights break out (even with active supervision). Guys get sent off the fireline for good. I would not want an inmate crew in my home. However, they are very good at using hand tools in the wildland environment.
Seth
That is an interesting observation! If a community allows inmate firefighters to serve, how does the community deny employment as a firefighter to someone with a record who is otherwise qualified?
It does crack open Pandora’s box.